{"id":19790,"title":"Mil Ceulemans - 2009 - Hopping, stepping and jumping through a forest of nondescript colours [EN, interview]","dimensions":"6 p.","date_begin":null,"material":"","art_status_id":13,"legal_status_id":47,"category_id":168,"platform_id":1,"deleted":false,"asset_count":0,"stream_count":0,"collection":"Hans Theys Archive / Archief Hans Theys","cached_tag_list":"","publishing_process_id":1,"annotation":"","date_end":null,"reference":"","stream_count_app":8,"permalink":"mil-ceulemans-hopping-stepping-and-jumping-through-a-forest-of-nondescript-colours-en-interview","description_ca":"","short_description_ca":"","description_it":"","short_description_it":"","cached_primary_asset_url":null,"cached_actor_names":"Hans Theys","hide_from_json":true,"prev_platform_id":null,"description_uk":null,"short_description_uk":null,"description_tr":null,"short_description_tr":null,"mhka_works":false,"category":{"en":"Interview","nl":"","fr":""},"poster_image":null,"poster_credits":null,"translations":[{"locale":"en","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cstrong\u003eHopping, stepping and jumping through a forest of nondescript colours\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Mil Ceulemans\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI visit the two studios of Mil Ceulemans (\u0026deg;1977). The first is in the working-class district of Borgerhout in Antwerp, the second is part of the Vrije Academie in The Hague. In the studio in Antwerp necessary renovation work has come to a halt half-way through. Clearly the painter is not overly concerned about the interior of his workplace. The space is crammed full of paintings. They are everywhere, leaning against the wall and against each other, stacked up and hanging. Across the middle of the space is a wardrobe with no doors and sitting on top of it are some thirty pristine, square canvasses. Ceulemans obviously works tirelessly. He is slim and tall in stature and has an alert expression which suggests inquisitiveness and elation, but also caution. He reads literature and philosophy and he loves films. He knows my old hero Fassbinder, which is unusual for someone who was five years old when the film director died. \u0026ldquo;Fran\u0026ccedil;ois Ozon\u0026#39;s film \u003cem\u003eGouttes d\u0026#39;eau sur pierres br\u0026ucirc;lantes\u003c/em\u003e (Water Drops on Burning Rocks) made a deep impression on me\u0026rdquo;, Ceulemans wrote to me, \u0026ldquo;and it was through that film that I discovered Fassbinder, who it seems wrote the original play when he was just seventeen. Incredible! I once saw four Fassbinder films in one week and was pretty fazed by the experience for weeks afterwards.\u0026rdquo;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans is well-read, but he doesn\u0026rsquo;t make paintings that translate ideas. They are real paintings, which reflect on painting in the serious \u003cem\u003eand\u003c/em\u003e amusing way that is typical of all art. (There is no discrepancy between play and seriousness, only between play and reality, as Freud wrote. Only play that is taken seriously can lead to new forms which for a while give us a grip on reality.)\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eHow might one characterize Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; work? What is special about it? On the one hand, the paintings are delightfully simple because you immediately recognize unusual, isolated, deliberately clumsy or very skilful touches, interventions or additions, which conjure up their own pictorial space because of their mutual relationship and their relationship with the background or with a figurative element. At the same time, the paintings are complex, because in just about every work you can count to five, to seven or to seventeen. The painter Walter Swennen once told me that in a good painting you can always count to three. This is certainly true of many paintings. Seen from that angle, Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; works first strike you as having been made by a painter \u0026lsquo;who doesn\u0026rsquo;t know when to stop\u0026rsquo;. It is as if he has added more elements than are necessary to arrive at a successful pictorial space. Look carefully, however, and you\u0026#39;ll see that while the resulting pictorial space is complex, it is also transparent and light. The paintings are not clogged. They create the illusion of depth. They evoke a sort of \u0026lsquo;stacked up\u0026rsquo; space, which might be described as a visual climbing frame.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eA second striking characteristic of these paintings is the use of colour. Looking and floundering, I suddenly remembered a remark by the painter Johan De Wilde, who wrote to me that he would like to invent a nondescript colour. What he meant by this was, I think, a colour that implies no meanings or connotations; an anonymous colour that puts us in mind of nothing else but that colour. Johan De Wilde would find Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; paintings extraordinary, I thought, because the colours the artist uses often make you think of nothing: they keep your mind from turning to things you already know, which would blot out the actual colour or the actual painting. I shared this thought with Ceulemans. \u0026ldquo;That makes sense,\u0026rdquo; he answered. \u0026ldquo;Johan De Wilde has just bought one of my paintings!\u0026rdquo;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Your paintings conjure up a pictorial space by means of fields of colour, stripes and messy brushstrokes, sometimes by means of a figurative element. Some of your strokes remind me of the highlights Joris Ghekiere applies with a brush attached to a drill.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, I know those highlights. They\u0026rsquo;re amazing.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here, where you would normally expect a highlight, you\u0026rsquo;ve painted a beige spot. The background is fluorescent vermillion. That\u0026rsquo;s a nice touch. The highlight is darker than the background: a sort of negative highlight.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: The advantage of fluorescent colours is that the onlooker understands that the painting is not trying to be realistic. I also like to make fluorescent colours vibrate with non-fluorescent colours, so that they change character. Here the result is a sort of Rothko on acid\u0026hellip; The work of the painter Pierre Soulages, where light and dark carry equal weight, helped me make and assess the almost white highlight in that fluorescent area, which nevertheless suddenly turns out to be darker than the fluorescent area. Black dominates in Soulages\u0026rsquo; work, but the white of the ground is just as important and occasionally even essential. A traditional or academic painter adds the highlights at the end. They are not vestiges of an earlier layer breaking through here and there, but strokes placed so as to illuminate certain areas. I enjoy reversing these things. The idea of \u0026lsquo;negative highlights\u0026rsquo;, as you call them, amuses and inspires me.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You make comical stains.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Sometimes I spend ten minutes working on a small stain. I keep on rubbing, trying to work it into the canvas so that the edges lose their definition and stand out.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you conjure up the image of a field of reeds by means of a whole host of choppy strokes in three different colours. \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I wanted to paint a stretch of grass, but it didn\u0026rsquo;t work. I ended up with a field of reeds.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- A virtuoso, illusionistic effect reminiscent of the Impressionists or of Van Gogh. At the same time the brushstrokes are so far apart that from close to they seem to float in a void. It looks as if you put them there to conjure up a dark void. The addition of the white touches shimmering against the brown background evidently gives your canvas depth.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Those touches also serve as a contrast to the almost mechanical, overworked areas which in the top half of the painting create the image of a building. It\u0026rsquo;s a good example of a contrast you can\u0026rsquo;t think up in advance. If I try to plan something, the painting goes wrong. I don\u0026#39;t plan. I look at the result of a gesture and then I try to counter it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The result is often a hollow piling up of minimal gestures, like a stripe created as a crevice between two added layers, which might suggest an architectural element like the corner of a building.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I love color field painting, but that\u0026rsquo;s not what I\u0026rsquo;m aiming at. I try to evoke a space which I paint very flat, allowing the spectator to approach it from different standpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How do you begin a painting? Do you use gesso?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I like to apply a first element as something to react to. Sometimes I use acrylics mixed with ink and sometimes coloured gesso, which usually produces a sort of pastel colour. The more dissimilar the ground in terms of colour and texture, the better. Different formats and stretchers of various thicknesses can also help get me started. Acrylics mixed with Indian ink or airbrush ink produce very runny, but highly pigmented paint which I really like working with. The pigment in that ink dissolves much more finely than you could possibly grind or mix it yourself. Unfortunately I can only get small bottles from my supplier now. I sometimes mix those inks with acrylics to give them density. That way I can also apply different strokes and I can work wet in wet.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you did use a white ground.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, but it took me months. The white gives it a sort of freshness.\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How did you make this smudge?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: To make a smudge like that, I go backwards and forwards 500 times with a fairly hard, hog\u0026rsquo;s bristle brush. There\u0026rsquo;s often a gradation in it, which I paint with a softer, synthetic brush. These are attempts to paint like someone who can\u0026rsquo;t paint.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I have the impression you sometimes lay your paintings down flat to paint them, otherwise there would be many more drips (because you work with very liquid paint).\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: You\u0026rsquo;re right. I often paint on flat canvases. Flat canvases provide a different perspective; you relate differently to the painting. Sometimes you are in for a surprise when you hang the canvas up, but that tension is all part of the process.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use a flesh colour for an abstract section.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t think I would use flesh colour to paint people, but it works for a background.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Why do you so often go for indefinable colours, colours that don\u0026rsquo;t trigger associations?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t want to make pure work. I don\u0026rsquo;t like pure ideas and pure execution. My work sets out to comment on the work itself. So it may come across as too double or too full, but to me that ambiguity is necessary. That\u0026rsquo;s the way the world appears to me and that\u0026rsquo;s how I look at the world. The \u0026lsquo;over-fullness\u0026rsquo; is intentional.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How would you describe this colour?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: It\u0026rsquo;s ochre with a dash of blue ink mixed in so that the ochre turns greenish, bluish. But actually it\u0026rsquo;s very difficult to define a colour. This area, for example, is painted very opaquely; it is more thickly covered than the other areas. It makes the colour look different. The other thing is that a colour is always influenced by the colours around it and by the way they are applied.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The edges of your paintings often contain little accents or even essentials.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Do you go right to the edge, do you stop just before or do you go over it? I want to make these options tangible, not for compositional reasons but to reveal the thinking behind and about a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I like the obvious vestiges of a bottom layer on the edges of your paintings. At first glance they suggest sloppiness, but then you see that they were applied afterwards, in a rough and humorous sort of way.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eCeulemans: \u003c/em\u003ePeople look first at silhouettes and contours and then at what\u0026rsquo;s inside a form. They enter the painting from the edge. That\u0026rsquo;s why it\u0026rsquo;s nice to have something tremble, explode or burst on the edge.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- They are elements which seem to serve as a sort of bogus starting point for a first, superficial reading of the painting.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: The genesis of a painting is part of its total makeup. It\u0026rsquo;s a feature like colour or form. That\u0026rsquo;s how I came up with the idea of influencing the overall shape of a painting by giving it a bogus history. I might do this by applying a thick layer of paint to the side of a painting to give the impression of numerous preparatory layers under the surface.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you painted over a pink section with a different pink.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: The painting was finished and then the cat walked over it! It was covered in paw marks. She didn\u0026rsquo;t walk over it in a felicitous way and so suddenly the painting was dead. After a while I decided to overcome that setback and I corrected the pink part but in such as way that you could see what I had done. The cover-up was executed in a deliberately rough-and-ready way.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eThe most important question I ask myself is: what is the most unlikely thing I can do on this canvas without resorting to gimmicks? Because I could of course cut the canvas up, but that doesn\u0026rsquo;t interest me. How can you make a painting a meta-painting? That\u0026rsquo;s what it\u0026rsquo;s all about. In a purely figurative painting nothing is left to the spectator\u0026rsquo;s imagination. But what would be sufficient motivation to create an abstract painting? You can see that it still needs something, but what? Sometimes you are overcome by despair because you can\u0026rsquo;t see any solution. I completed the painting you see here with a calligraphic element. That sort of thing doesn\u0026rsquo;t usually work, because the painting starts to revolve around the last gesture. But here it\u0026rsquo;s in proportion. It\u0026rsquo;s often a question of striking a balance: how can I put a line very clearly on the canvas and yet still have it suggest something?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- By making the line sharp on one side and leaving the other side hazy.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: For example.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use the outline of a car as a figurative starting point.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I studied product development for a year. It\u0026rsquo;s a product drawing. The prototype as abstract matter. Here the abstraction is created by the juxtaposition of lines. The lines suggest an unrealistic space. This first dawned on me in 2008.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You have a tendency to exploit the adventure of each painting to the full.\u0026nbsp; \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: How complete do you want to be in a single painting? That\u0026rsquo;s a really important question. Only since February of this year have I understood how this can work. I now understand that I don\u0026rsquo;t have to pack everything into each work, that collectively my paintings tell a story.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Would you name a painter whose work you like?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: As it happens, you have already mentioned his name. I love Joris Ghekiere\u0026rsquo;s work if there are no frontal figures in it. Abstraction and figuration are given equal weight in his work, and I can identify with that. His quest for strange painterly solutions is inspirational. Sometimes that sort of quest is endearing, but it is also necessary\u0026hellip; A painter who has been important to me is Philip Guston. He started off as a cartoonist. He then went on to make abstract paintings and after that figurative elements began to appear in his work. Gradually lines crept in and the forms became harder and harder\u0026hellip; I can never really admire painters who spend the whole of their life doing the same thing\u0026hellip;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI trained as an illustrator and as such worked for two well-known weeklies. But I stopped\u0026hellip; I spent most of the next few years reading: Nietzsche, Montaigne, Bataille, Derrida, Deleuze, Heidegger, Adorno, Horkheimer, Peter Sloterdijk and Guy Debord, who offered an attitude to life rather than a philosophy. I was living near the library in Ghent. I\u0026rsquo;m really glad I read so much then, because now I just can\u0026rsquo;t do it. I can\u0026rsquo;t read and paint at the same time.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Have you also read novels?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: I found Christian Dotremont\u0026rsquo;s only novel La pierre et l\u0026rsquo;oreiller, really beautiful\u0026hellip; Cesare Pavese\u0026rsquo;s The Burning Brand, Mishima\u003cem\u003e\u0026rsquo;s Confessions of a Mask\u003c/em\u003e, Thomas Bernhard\u0026hellip; And \u003cem\u003eThe Thirtieth Year \u003c/em\u003eby Ingeborg Bachmann, with whom Paul Celan had an affair, has always stayed with me. I also thought the Japanese book \u003cem\u003eThe Woman in the Dunes\u003c/em\u003e was marvellous: a couple of characters and otherwise just the ever-shifting sand. In that novel the desert sand is much more than a setting, it almost becomes a character in its own right. Brilliant\u0026hellip; \u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Like a flesh-coloured background in one of your paintings?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Indeed. A reversal that is unexpected but leaves a lasting impression. An ambiguous world to walk through.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, December 31st 2009\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nTranslated by Alison Mouthaan-Gwillim\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"nl","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cb\u003eHinkelen in een woud van onbestaande kleuren\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nGesprek met Mil Ceulemans\u003c/b\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nIk bezoek beide ateliers van Mil Ceulemans (\u0026deg;1977). Het eerste bevindt zich in Borgerhout, het tweede maakt deel uit van de Haagse Vrije Academie. In het Antwerpse atelier zijn noodzakelijke renovatiewerken hal-ver-wege gestaakt. De schilder is iemand die niet maalt om de interieurvormgeving van zijn atelier, dat zie je. De ruimte staat stampvol schilderijen. Overal vind je schuin tegen de muur en tegen elkaar leunende, opgehangen en opgestapelde schilderijen. In het midden van een ruimte staat een kleerkast zonder deuren dwars in de ruimte. Bovenop de kast rusten dertig maagdelijke, vierkante doeken. Het is duidelijk dat Ceulemans onafgebroken werkt. Hij heeft een ranke, rijzige gestalte en een levendige blik die een nieuwsgierige, verrukte en tegelijk voorzichtige indruk maakt. Hij leest literatuur en filosofie en houdt van films. Hij kent mijn oude held Fassbinder! Dat is uitzonderlijk voor iemand die vijf was toen de cineast stierf. \u0026lsquo;Via Fran\u0026ccedil;ois Ozon\u0026rsquo;s film \u003ci\u003eGouttes d\u0026rsquo;eau sur pierres br\u0026ucirc;lantes\u003c/i\u003e\u0026rsquo;, die mij erg pakte,\u0026rsquo; schreef hij mij, \u0026lsquo;ben ik bij Fassbinder terechtgekomen, die het oorspronkelijke toneelstuk blijkbaar had geschreven toen hij pas 17 was. Overweldigend. Ik heb ooit in \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n week vier films van Fassbinder gezien. Nadien was ik natuurlijk weken van slag.\u0026rsquo;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp; Ceulemans is belezen, maar hij maakt geen schilderijen die idee\u0026euml;n vertalen. Het zijn \u0026eacute;chte schilderijen, die nadenken over schilderen, op de tegelijk ernstige en grappige manier die alle kunst eigen is. (Er is geen tegenstelling tussen spel en ernst, alleen tussen spel en werkelijkheid, zoals Freud schreef. Alleen het ernstig genomen spel kan leiden tot nieuwe vormen die ons voor een tijdje greep geven op de werkelijkheid.)\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp; Hoe zou je het werk van Ceulemans kunnen karakteriseren? Wat is er specifiek aan? De schilderijen zijn grappig eenvoudig, omdat je meteen ongewone, ge\u0026iuml;soleerde, gewild onhandige of juist heel virtuoze toetsen, ingrepen of toevoegingen herkent, die door hun onderlinge verhouding en door hun relatie met de ondergrond of met een figuratief element een eigen picturale ruimte oproepen. De schilderijen zijn complex, omdat je in vrijwel elk werk tot vijf, tot zeven of tot zeventien kan tellen. De schilder Walter Swennen vertelde mij dat je in een goed schilderij altijd tot drie kan tellen. Dat is zeker waar voor heel veel schilderijen. Vanuit dit gezichtspunt bekeken, zien de werken van Ceulemans er op het eerste gezicht uit als werken van een schilder \u0026lsquo;die niet kan stoppen\u0026rsquo;. Het lijkt alsof hij meer elementen toevoegt dan nodig is om tot een geslaagde picturale ruimte te komen. Maar ook al is de resulterende picturale ruimte complex, ze blijft toch transparant en luchtig. De schilderijen zijn niet \u0026lsquo;toe geschilderd\u0026rsquo;. Ze spelen zich af in een soort van gestapelde ruimte, die je zou kunnen omschrijven als een visueel klimrek voor gevorderden.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp; Een tweede opvallend kenmerk van deze schilderijen is het kleurgebruik. Kijkend en tobbend, herinnerde ik me plotseling een opmerking van de schilder Johan De Wilde, die mij schreef dat hij graag een onbestaande kleur zou uitvinden. Ik denk dat hij daarmee een kleur bedoelt die geen betekenissen of connotaties oproept. Een kleur zonder naam, die ons aan niets anders doet denken dan aan zichzelf. Johan De Wilde zou de schilderijen van Ceulemans wel bijzonder vinden, bedacht ik, want de kleuren die deze kunstenaar gebruikt doen vaak echt aan niks denken: ze beletten dat je gedachten afdwalen naar dingen die je al kent, waardoor de eigenlijke kleur of het eigenlijke schilderij onzichtbaar zouden worden. Ik deelde mijn gedachte met Ceulemans. \u0026lsquo;Dat kan geen toeval zijn,\u0026rsquo; antwoordde hij. \u0026lsquo;Johan De Wilde heeft pas een schilderij van mij gekocht.\u0026rsquo;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Je schilderijen roepen een picturale ruimte op aan de hand van vlakken, strepen en morsige toetsen, heel zelden door een figuratief element. Je zoektocht lijkt op die van Serge El Moussawi, die met gelijksoortige bibberende streepjes een illusie van ruimte probeert op te roepen. Ik denk ook aan de hooglichten die Joris Ghekiere aanbrengt met een penseel dat hij aan een boor bevestigt.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ja, ik ken die hooglichten. Ik vind ze heel bijzonder.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hier heb je, op de plaats waar normaal een hooglicht moet komen, een beige vlek aangebracht. De achtergrond is fluo-vermiljoen. Grappig. Het hooglicht is donkerder dan de achtergrond: een soort van negatief hooglicht.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Het voordeel van fluokleuren is dat de kijker begrijpt dat het schilderij niet realistisch wil zijn. Ik hou er ook van fluokleuren te laten vibreren met non-fluokleuren, waardoor ze van karakter veranderen. Hier is het resultaat een soort Rothko on acid\u0026hellip; Het werk van de schilder Pierre Soulages, waarin een gelijkwaardigheid van licht en donker voorkomt, heeft mij geholpen bij het maken en het beoordelen van het bijna witte hooglicht in dat fluovlak, dat plots toch donkerder uitvalt dan het fluovlak zelf. Bij Soulages overheerst het zwart, maar toch is het wit van de ondergrond evenwaardig en af en toe zelfs noodzakelijk. Een traditioneel of academisch schilder brengt de hooglichten aan op het eind. Het zijn geen restanten van een vorige laag die nog hier en daar doorbreekt, maar bewust geplaatste toetsen om bepaalde plekken te laten oplichten. Het is leuk voor mij om zulke zaken om te draaien. Het idee alleen al van \u0026lsquo;negatieve hooglichten\u0026rsquo;, zoals jij ze noemt, vind ik geestig en inspirerend.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Je maakt grappige vlekken.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Soms werk ik tien minuten aan zo\u0026rsquo;n vlekje. Ik blijf dan frotteren, ik probeer het in het doek te wrijven, waardoor de randjes wollig worden en een surplus krijgen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hier roep je het beeld op van een rietveld op door middel van een zwerm hakkende toetsen in drie verschillende kleuren.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik wilde het beeld van een grasveld oproepen, maar dat is niet gelukt. Het is uiteindelijk een rietveld geworden.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Een illusionistisch effect dat aan de impressionisten of aan Van Gogh doet denken. Tegelijk staan de toetsen zo ver uit elkaar dat ze van dichtbij gezien in een leegte lijken te zweven. Daardoor lijkt het alsof ze gemaakt zijn om een donkere leegte op te roepen. De toevoeging van de witte toetsen, die tintelen voor de bruine achtergrond, brengt schijnbaar diepte in je doek.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Die toetsen dienen ook als contrast met de bijna mechanisch doodgeschilderde vlakken die op de bovenste helft van het schilderij het beeld van een gebouw oproepen. Het is een goed voorbeeld van een contrast dat je niet vooraf kan bedenken. Als ik vooraf iets probeer te bedenken, mislukt het schilderij. Ik kijk naar een gedane geste en ik probeer die te counteren.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Het resultaat is vaak een holle stapeling van minieme gestes, bijvoorbeeld een uitgespaarde kleurstreep die een architecturaal element suggereert.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik hou van de color field painting, maar dat is niet waar ik nu naartoe wil. Ik probeer een ruimte op te roepen die heel vlak is opgevat en waarbij je als kijker verschillende standpunten kan innemen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hoe begin je aan een schilderij? Gebruik je gesso?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik breng graag een basisgegeven aan om op te reageren. Vaak is dat met inkt gemengde acryl of in de massa gekleurde gesso, wat meestal een soort van pastelkleur oplevert. Hoe meer verschillend de fond qua kleur en textuur, hoe beter. Verschillende formaten en spanramen van verschillende dikte kunnen mij ook makkelijker op gang trekken. Acryl gemengd met Oost-Indische inkt of airbrush-inkt levert heel lopende, maar super hoog gepigmenteerde verf op waar ik heel graag mee werk. Het pigment in die inkt is veel fijner opgelost dan je het zelf zou kunnen stampen of mengen. Helaas verkoopt mijn leverancier nu alleen nog kleine flesjes. Ik meng die inkten soms met acryl om ze een massa te geven, zodat er weer andere toetsen mogelijk worden en ik ook nat in nat kan werken.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In dit schilderij heb je wel een witte ondergrond gebruikt.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ja, maar ik heb er wel maanden over gedaan. Het wit zorgt voor een soort van frisheid.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hoe heb je deze veeg gemaakt?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Voor dat soort veeg ga ik 500 keer heen en weer met een vrij harde, varkensharen borstel. Vaak zit er een d\u0026eacute;grad\u0026eacute; in, die ik schilder met een zachter, synthetisch penseel. Het zijn pogingen te schilderen zoals iemand die niet kan schilderen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Ik heb de indruk dat je je schilderijen soms neerlegt om te schilderen. Anders zouden er veel meer druipende partijen op te zien zijn. (Omdat je zo vloeibaar schildert.)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Dat klopt. Ik schilder vaak op liggende doeken. Liggende doeken bieden een ander overzicht. Je verhoudt je anders tot het schilderij. Soms kom je daardoor wel voor verrassingen te staan als je het doek ophangt, maar die spanning hoort erbij.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hier gebruik je een vleeskleur voor een abstracte partij.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik denk niet dat ik vleeskleur zou gebruiken om afbeeldingen van mensen te schilderen, maar voor een achtergrond is het heel geschikt.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Waarom werk je vaak met onbestemde kleuren, met kleuren die geen associaties oproepen?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik wil geen puur werk maken. Ik hou niet van pure idee\u0026euml;n en ook niet van pure uitvoeringen. Mijn werk tracht commentaar te leveren op het werk zelf. Het komt dan misschien over als te dubbel of te compleet, maar ik vind die ambigu\u0026iuml;teit noodzakelijk. De wereld doet zich zo aan mij voor en zo zoek ik haar: het te volle is gewild.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hoe zou je deze kleur omschrijven?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Het is oker met een puntje blauwe inkt onder gemengd, waardoor de oker vergroent, verblauwt. Maar eigenlijk is een kleur op zich moeilijk te bepalen. Dit vlak is bijvoorbeeld heel opaak geschilderd, veel meer dekkend dan de andere vlakken. De kleur lijkt er anders door te worden. Bovendien wordt een kleur altijd be\u0026iuml;nvloed door de omliggende kleuren en de manier waarop ze zijn aangebracht.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Je schilderijen bevatten vaak accenten of zelfs zwaartepunten die zich aan de rand bevinden.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ga je tot tegen de rand, stop je er vlak voor of ga je erover? Ik wil die keuzes voelbaar maken, niet omwille van de compositie op zich, maar als vorm voor een zichtbaar denken over het schilderen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Ik hou van de schijnbare restanten van een onderste laag, aan de randen van je schilderijen. Op het eerste gezicht lijken ze het gevolg van slordigheid, maar dan zie je dat ze nadien zijn aangebracht, op een grappig aandoende, stroeve manier.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Mensen kijken eerst naar silhouetten en contouren en dan naar de invulling van een vorm. Ze stappen via de rand in het schilderij. Daarom is het prettig aan de rand iets te laten trillen, ontploffen of barsten.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Het zijn elementen die lijken te fungeren als een soort van valse aanknopingspunten voor een eerste, oppervlakkige lectuur van het schilderij.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: De ontstaansgeschiedenis van een schilderij maakt deel uit van de totale opmaak ervan. Het is een eigenschap zoals kleur of vorm. Zo kwam ik op het idee de gestalte van een schilderij ook te be\u0026iuml;nvloeden door het een valse geschiedenis te geven. Ik doe dat onder meer door aan de zijkant van sommige schilderijen een dikke laag verf aan te brengen die de indruk cre\u0026euml;ert dat er heel wat voorbereidende lagen schuilgaan onder het oppervlak.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In dit schilderij heb je een roze partij overschilderd met een ander roze.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Het schilderij was al af toen de kat erover wandelde. Het stond vol pootjes. Ineens was het schilderij dood. Ze was er niet op een gelukkige manier over gelopen. Na een tijdje heb ik besloten mij over die tegenslag heen te zetten en heb ik de roze partij op een zichtbare manier gecorrigeerd. Slordig weggemoffeld.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp; D\u0026eacute; hoofdvraag die ik mezelf stel is: wat is het meest onwaarschijnlijke dat ik nu op dit doek kan doen zonder mij te verliezen in gimmicks? Want ik kan het doek natuurlijk ook in stukken snijden, maar dat interesseert mij niet. Hoe kan je van een schilderij een meta-schilderij maken? Daar gaat het om. In een louter figuratief schilderij heeft de kijker geen functie meer. Maar op basis van welke motieven maak je een abstract schilderij? Je ziet dat het nog iets nodig heeft, maar wat? Soms voel je pure wanhoop, omdat je geen oplossing ziet. Het schilderij dat je hier ziet, heb ik voltooid met een kalligrafisch element. Meestal lukt zoiets niet, omdat het hele schilderij dan rond zo\u0026rsquo;n geste begint te draaien. Maar hier is het in verhouding. Vaak gaat het om een zoektocht naar evenwicht: hoe kan je heel duidelijk een lijn op een doek zetten en die lijn toch nog iets laten suggereren?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Door de lijn aan \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n kant scherp te maken en aan de andere kant rafelig te laten?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Bijvoorbeeld.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hier gebruik je het silhouet van een auto als figuratief uitgangspunt.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Ik heb een jaar productontwikkeling gestudeerd. Het is een producttekening. Het prototype als abstracte materie. Hier ontstaat de abstractie door het naast elkaar plaatsen van lijnen. De lijnen suggereren een onrealistische ruimte. De eerste keer dat ik dit doorhad was in 2008.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Je hebt de neiging het avontuur van elk schilderij zo volledig mogelijk te benutten.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Hoe volledig wil je zijn in \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n schilderij? Dat is een van de hoofdvragen. Pas sinds februari van dit jaar begrijp ik hoe dit kan marcheren; begrijp ik dat niet alles in \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n werk moet zitten. Dat mijn schilderijen samen een verhaal vertellen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Zou je een schilder willen noemen van wiens werk je houdt?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Toevallig heb je zijn naam al genoemd. Ik hou van het werk van Joris Ghekiere als er geen frontale figuren op staan. Abstractie en figuratie krijgen in zijn werk een gelijkwaardigheid waarin ik mij kan vinden. Zijn zoektocht naar vreemde schilderkunstige oplossingen is inspirerend. Soms wordt zo\u0026rsquo;n zoektocht aandoenlijk, maar het blijft noodzakelijk\u0026hellip; Een schilder die belangrijk is geweest voor mij, is Philip Guston. Hij is begonnen als cartoonist. Daarna heeft hij abstracte schilderijen gemaakt en nog later zijn er opnieuw figuratieve elementen tevoorschijn gekomen in zijn werk. Langzaam zijn er weer lijnen tevoorschijn gekomen en zijn de vormen harder en harder geworden\u0026hellip; Schilders die hun hele leven hetzelfde doen, kunnen mij niet echt bekoren\u0026hellip;\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp; Ik ben opgeleid als illustrator en heb in die hoedanigheid gewerkt voor twee bekende weekbladen. Maar ik ben ermee gestopt\u0026hellip; De daaropvolgende jaren heb ik vooral gelezen: Nietzsche, Montaigne, Bataille, Derrida, Deleuze, Heidegger, Adorno, Horkheimer, Peter Sloterdijk en Guy Debord die, meer dan een filosofie, een levenshouding te bieden had. Ik woonde in Gent vlak bij de bibliotheek. Ik ben blij dat ik toen zoveel heb gelezen, want nu gaat dat niet meer. Ik kan niet lezen en schilderen tegelijk.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Heb je ook romans gelezen?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: \u003ci\u003eDe steen en het oorkussen\u003c/i\u003e, de enige roman van Christian Dotremont, vond ik heel mooi\u0026hellip; \u003ci\u003eLeven als ambacht\u003c/i\u003e van Cesare Pavese, \u003ci\u003eBekentenissen van een gemaskerde\u003c/i\u003e van Mishima, Thomas Bernhard\u0026hellip; \u003ci\u003eHet dertigste jaar\u003c/i\u003e van Ingeborg Bachmann, op een gegeven ogenblik de vriendin van Paul Celan, is mij ook altijd bijgebleven. Ook het Japanse boek \u003ci\u003eThe Woman in the Dunes\u003c/i\u003e vond ik prachtig: een paar figuren en verder enkel zand in al zijn gedaantes. Het woestijnzand wordt in die roman een echt personage, veel meer dan een decor. Sterk\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Een beetje zoals een vleeskleurig achtergrond in een van jouw schilde-rijen?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eCeulemans: Zoiets ja. Een onverwachte, maar beklijvende omkering. Een dubbelzinnige wereld om in rond te wandelen.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, 31 december 2009\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"fr","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cstrong\u003eHopping, stepping and jumping through a forest of nondescript colours\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Mil Ceulemans\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI visit the two studios of Mil Ceulemans (\u0026deg;1977). The first is in the working-class district of Borgerhout in Antwerp, the second is part of the Vrije Academie in The Hague. In the studio in Antwerp necessary renovation work has come to a halt half-way through. Clearly the painter is not overly concerned about the interior of his workplace. The space is crammed full of paintings. They are everywhere, leaning against the wall and against each other, stacked up and hanging. Across the middle of the space is a wardrobe with no doors and sitting on top of it are some thirty pristine, square canvasses. Ceulemans obviously works tirelessly. He is slim and tall in stature and has an alert expression which suggests inquisitiveness and elation, but also caution. He reads literature and philosophy and he loves films. He knows my old hero Fassbinder, which is unusual for someone who was five years old when the film director died. \u0026ldquo;Fran\u0026ccedil;ois Ozon\u0026#39;s film \u003cem\u003eGouttes d\u0026#39;eau sur pierres br\u0026ucirc;lantes\u003c/em\u003e (Water Drops on Burning Rocks) made a deep impression on me\u0026rdquo;, Ceulemans wrote to me, \u0026ldquo;and it was through that film that I discovered Fassbinder, who it seems wrote the original play when he was just seventeen. Incredible! I once saw four Fassbinder films in one week and was pretty fazed by the experience for weeks afterwards.\u0026rdquo;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans is well-read, but he doesn\u0026rsquo;t make paintings that translate ideas. They are real paintings, which reflect on painting in the serious \u003cem\u003eand\u003c/em\u003e amusing way that is typical of all art. (There is no discrepancy between play and seriousness, only between play and reality, as Freud wrote. Only play that is taken seriously can lead to new forms which for a while give us a grip on reality.)\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eHow might one characterize Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; work? What is special about it? On the one hand, the paintings are delightfully simple because you immediately recognize unusual, isolated, deliberately clumsy or very skilful touches, interventions or additions, which conjure up their own pictorial space because of their mutual relationship and their relationship with the background or with a figurative element. At the same time, the paintings are complex, because in just about every work you can count to five, to seven or to seventeen. The painter Walter Swennen once told me that in a good painting you can always count to three. This is certainly true of many paintings. Seen from that angle, Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; works first strike you as having been made by a painter \u0026lsquo;who doesn\u0026rsquo;t know when to stop\u0026rsquo;. It is as if he has added more elements than are necessary to arrive at a successful pictorial space. Look carefully, however, and you\u0026#39;ll see that while the resulting pictorial space is complex, it is also transparent and light. The paintings are not clogged. They create the illusion of depth. They evoke a sort of \u0026lsquo;stacked up\u0026rsquo; space, which might be described as a visual climbing frame.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eA second striking characteristic of these paintings is the use of colour. Looking and floundering, I suddenly remembered a remark by the painter Johan De Wilde, who wrote to me that he would like to invent a nondescript colour. What he meant by this was, I think, a colour that implies no meanings or connotations; an anonymous colour that puts us in mind of nothing else but that colour. Johan De Wilde would find Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; paintings extraordinary, I thought, because the colours the artist uses often make you think of nothing: they keep your mind from turning to things you already know, which would blot out the actual colour or the actual painting. I shared this thought with Ceulemans. \u0026ldquo;That makes sense,\u0026rdquo; he answered. \u0026ldquo;Johan De Wilde has just bought one of my paintings!\u0026rdquo;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Your paintings conjure up a pictorial space by means of fields of colour, stripes and messy brushstrokes, sometimes by means of a figurative element. Some of your strokes remind me of the highlights Joris Ghekiere applies with a brush attached to a drill.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, I know those highlights. They\u0026rsquo;re amazing.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here, where you would normally expect a highlight, you\u0026rsquo;ve painted a beige spot. The background is fluorescent vermillion. That\u0026rsquo;s a nice touch. The highlight is darker than the background: a sort of negative highlight.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The advantage of fluorescent colours is that the onlooker understands that the painting is not trying to be realistic. I also like to make fluorescent colours vibrate with non-fluorescent colours, so that they change character. Here the result is a sort of Rothko on acid\u0026hellip; The work of the painter Pierre Soulages, where light and dark carry equal weight, helped me make and assess the almost white highlight in that fluorescent area, which nevertheless suddenly turns out to be darker than the fluorescent area. Black dominates in Soulages\u0026rsquo; work, but the white of the ground is just as important and occasionally even essential. A traditional or academic painter adds the highlights at the end. They are not vestiges of an earlier layer breaking through here and there, but strokes placed so as to illuminate certain areas. I enjoy reversing these things. The idea of \u0026lsquo;negative highlights\u0026rsquo;, as you call them, amuses and inspires me.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You make comical stains.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Sometimes I spend ten minutes working on a small stain. I keep on rubbing, trying to work it into the canvas so that the edges lose their definition and stand out.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you conjure up the image of a field of reeds by means of a whole host of choppy strokes in three different colours. \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I wanted to paint a stretch of grass, but it didn\u0026rsquo;t work. I ended up with a field of reeds.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- A virtuoso, illusionistic effect reminiscent of the Impressionists or of Van Gogh. At the same time the brushstrokes are so far apart that from close to they seem to float in a void. It looks as if you put them there to conjure up a dark void. The addition of the white touches shimmering against the brown background evidently gives your canvas depth.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Those touches also serve as a contrast to the almost mechanical, overworked areas which in the top half of the painting create the image of a building. It\u0026rsquo;s a good example of a contrast you can\u0026rsquo;t think up in advance. If I try to plan something, the painting goes wrong. I don\u0026#39;t plan. I look at the result of a gesture and then I try to counter it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The result is often a hollow piling up of minimal gestures, like a stripe created as a crevice between two added layers, which might suggest an architectural element like the corner of a building.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I love color field painting, but that\u0026rsquo;s not what I\u0026rsquo;m aiming at. I try to evoke a space which I paint very flat, allowing the spectator to approach it from different standpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How do you begin a painting? Do you use gesso?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I like to apply a first element as something to react to. Sometimes I use acrylics mixed with ink and sometimes coloured gesso, which usually produces a sort of pastel colour. The more dissimilar the ground in terms of colour and texture, the better. Different formats and stretchers of various thicknesses can also help get me started. Acrylics mixed with Indian ink or airbrush ink produce very runny, but highly pigmented paint which I really like working with. The pigment in that ink dissolves much more finely than you could possibly grind or mix it yourself. Unfortunately I can only get small bottles from my supplier now. I sometimes mix those inks with acrylics to give them density. That way I can also apply different strokes and I can work wet in wet.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you did use a white ground.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, but it took me months. The white gives it a sort of freshness.\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How did you make this smudge?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: To make a smudge like that, I go backwards and forwards 500 times with a fairly hard, hog\u0026rsquo;s bristle brush. There\u0026rsquo;s often a gradation in it, which I paint with a softer, synthetic brush. These are attempts to paint like someone who can\u0026rsquo;t paint.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I have the impression you sometimes lay your paintings down flat to paint them, otherwise there would be many more drips (because you work with very liquid paint).\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: You\u0026rsquo;re right. I often paint on flat canvases. Flat canvases provide a different perspective; you relate differently to the painting. Sometimes you are in for a surprise when you hang the canvas up, but that tension is all part of the process.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use a flesh colour for an abstract section.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t think I would use flesh colour to paint people, but it works for a background.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Why do you so often go for indefinable colours, colours that don\u0026rsquo;t trigger associations?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t want to make pure work. I don\u0026rsquo;t like pure ideas and pure execution. My work sets out to comment on the work itself. So it may come across as too double or too full, but to me that ambiguity is necessary. That\u0026rsquo;s the way the world appears to me and that\u0026rsquo;s how I look at the world. The \u0026lsquo;over-fullness\u0026rsquo; is intentional.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How would you describe this colour?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: It\u0026rsquo;s ochre with a dash of blue ink mixed in so that the ochre turns greenish, bluish. But actually it\u0026rsquo;s very difficult to define a colour. This area, for example, is painted very opaquely; it is more thickly covered than the other areas. It makes the colour look different. The other thing is that a colour is always influenced by the colours around it and by the way they are applied.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The edges of your paintings often contain little accents or even essentials.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Do you go right to the edge, do you stop just before or do you go over it? I want to make these options tangible, not for compositional reasons but to reveal the thinking behind and about a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I like the obvious vestiges of a bottom layer on the edges of your paintings. At first glance they suggest sloppiness, but then you see that they were applied afterwards, in a rough and humorous sort of way.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eCeulemans: \u003c/em\u003ePeople look first at silhouettes and contours and then at what\u0026rsquo;s inside a form. They enter the painting from the edge. That\u0026rsquo;s why it\u0026rsquo;s nice to have something tremble, explode or burst on the edge.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- They are elements which seem to serve as a sort of bogus starting point for a first, superficial reading of the painting.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The genesis of a painting is part of its total makeup. It\u0026rsquo;s a feature like colour or form. That\u0026rsquo;s how I came up with the idea of influencing the overall shape of a painting by giving it a bogus history. I might do this by applying a thick layer of paint to the side of a painting to give the impression of numerous preparatory layers under the surface.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you painted over a pink section with a different pink.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The painting was finished and then the cat walked over it! It was covered in paw marks. She didn\u0026rsquo;t walk over it in a felicitous way and so suddenly the painting was dead. After a while I decided to overcome that setback and I corrected the pink part but in such as way that you could see what I had done. The cover-up was executed in a deliberately rough-and-ready way.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eThe most important question I ask myself is: what is the most unlikely thing I can do on this canvas without resorting to gimmicks? Because I could of course cut the canvas up, but that doesn\u0026rsquo;t interest me. How can you make a painting a meta-painting? That\u0026rsquo;s what it\u0026rsquo;s all about. In a purely figurative painting nothing is left to the spectator\u0026rsquo;s imagination. But what would be sufficient motivation to create an abstract painting? You can see that it still needs something, but what? Sometimes you are overcome by despair because you can\u0026rsquo;t see any solution. I completed the painting you see here with a calligraphic element. That sort of thing doesn\u0026rsquo;t usually work, because the painting starts to revolve around the last gesture. But here it\u0026rsquo;s in proportion. It\u0026rsquo;s often a question of striking a balance: how can I put a line very clearly on the canvas and yet still have it suggest something?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- By making the line sharp on one side and leaving the other side hazy.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: For example.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use the outline of a car as a figurative starting point.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I studied product development for a year. It\u0026rsquo;s a product drawing. The prototype as abstract matter. Here the abstraction is created by the juxtaposition of lines. The lines suggest an unrealistic space. This first dawned on me in 2008.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You have a tendency to exploit the adventure of each painting to the full.\u0026nbsp; \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: How complete do you want to be in a single painting? That\u0026rsquo;s a really important question. Only since February of this year have I understood how this can work. I now understand that I don\u0026rsquo;t have to pack everything into each work, that collectively my paintings tell a story.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Would you name a painter whose work you like?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: As it happens, you have already mentioned his name. I love Joris Ghekiere\u0026rsquo;s work if there are no frontal figures in it. Abstraction and figuration are given equal weight in his work, and I can identify with that. His quest for strange painterly solutions is inspirational. Sometimes that sort of quest is endearing, but it is also necessary\u0026hellip; A painter who has been important to me is Philip Guston. He started off as a cartoonist. He then went on to make abstract paintings and after that figurative elements began to appear in his work. Gradually lines crept in and the forms became harder and harder\u0026hellip; I can never really admire painters who spend the whole of their life doing the same thing\u0026hellip;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI trained as an illustrator and as such worked for two well-known weeklies. But I stopped\u0026hellip; I spent most of the next few years reading: Nietzsche, Montaigne, Bataille, Derrida, Deleuze, Heidegger, Adorno, Horkheimer, Peter Sloterdijk and Guy Debord, who offered an attitude to life rather than a philosophy. I was living near the library in Ghent. I\u0026rsquo;m really glad I read so much then, because now I just can\u0026rsquo;t do it. I can\u0026rsquo;t read and paint at the same time.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Have you also read novels?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I found Christian Dotremont\u0026rsquo;s only novel La pierre et l\u0026rsquo;oreiller, really beautiful\u0026hellip; Cesare Pavese\u0026rsquo;s The Burning Brand, Mishima\u003cem\u003e\u0026rsquo;s Confessions of a Mask\u003c/em\u003e, Thomas Bernhard\u0026hellip; And \u003cem\u003eThe Thirtieth Year \u003c/em\u003eby Ingeborg Bachmann, with whom Paul Celan had an affair, has always stayed with me. I also thought the Japanese book \u003cem\u003eThe Woman in the Dunes\u003c/em\u003e was marvellous: a couple of characters and otherwise just the ever-shifting sand. In that novel the desert sand is much more than a setting, it almost becomes a character in its own right. Brilliant\u0026hellip; \u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Like a flesh-coloured background in one of your paintings?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Indeed. A reversal that is unexpected but leaves a lasting impression. An ambiguous world to walk through.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, December 31st 2009\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nTranslated by Alison Mouthaan-Gwillim\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"ru","short_description":"","description":""},{"locale":"de","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cstrong\u003eHopping, stepping and jumping through a forest of nondescript colours\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Mil Ceulemans\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI visit the two studios of Mil Ceulemans (\u0026deg;1977). The first is in the working-class district of Borgerhout in Antwerp, the second is part of the Vrije Academie in The Hague. In the studio in Antwerp necessary renovation work has come to a halt half-way through. Clearly the painter is not overly concerned about the interior of his workplace. The space is crammed full of paintings. They are everywhere, leaning against the wall and against each other, stacked up and hanging. Across the middle of the space is a wardrobe with no doors and sitting on top of it are some thirty pristine, square canvasses. Ceulemans obviously works tirelessly. He is slim and tall in stature and has an alert expression which suggests inquisitiveness and elation, but also caution. He reads literature and philosophy and he loves films. He knows my old hero Fassbinder, which is unusual for someone who was five years old when the film director died. \u0026ldquo;Fran\u0026ccedil;ois Ozon\u0026#39;s film \u003cem\u003eGouttes d\u0026#39;eau sur pierres br\u0026ucirc;lantes\u003c/em\u003e (Water Drops on Burning Rocks) made a deep impression on me\u0026rdquo;, Ceulemans wrote to me, \u0026ldquo;and it was through that film that I discovered Fassbinder, who it seems wrote the original play when he was just seventeen. Incredible! I once saw four Fassbinder films in one week and was pretty fazed by the experience for weeks afterwards.\u0026rdquo;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans is well-read, but he doesn\u0026rsquo;t make paintings that translate ideas. They are real paintings, which reflect on painting in the serious \u003cem\u003eand\u003c/em\u003e amusing way that is typical of all art. (There is no discrepancy between play and seriousness, only between play and reality, as Freud wrote. Only play that is taken seriously can lead to new forms which for a while give us a grip on reality.)\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eHow might one characterize Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; work? What is special about it? On the one hand, the paintings are delightfully simple because you immediately recognize unusual, isolated, deliberately clumsy or very skilful touches, interventions or additions, which conjure up their own pictorial space because of their mutual relationship and their relationship with the background or with a figurative element. At the same time, the paintings are complex, because in just about every work you can count to five, to seven or to seventeen. The painter Walter Swennen once told me that in a good painting you can always count to three. This is certainly true of many paintings. Seen from that angle, Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; works first strike you as having been made by a painter \u0026lsquo;who doesn\u0026rsquo;t know when to stop\u0026rsquo;. It is as if he has added more elements than are necessary to arrive at a successful pictorial space. Look carefully, however, and you\u0026#39;ll see that while the resulting pictorial space is complex, it is also transparent and light. The paintings are not clogged. They create the illusion of depth. They evoke a sort of \u0026lsquo;stacked up\u0026rsquo; space, which might be described as a visual climbing frame.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eA second striking characteristic of these paintings is the use of colour. Looking and floundering, I suddenly remembered a remark by the painter Johan De Wilde, who wrote to me that he would like to invent a nondescript colour. What he meant by this was, I think, a colour that implies no meanings or connotations; an anonymous colour that puts us in mind of nothing else but that colour. Johan De Wilde would find Ceulemans\u0026rsquo; paintings extraordinary, I thought, because the colours the artist uses often make you think of nothing: they keep your mind from turning to things you already know, which would blot out the actual colour or the actual painting. I shared this thought with Ceulemans. \u0026ldquo;That makes sense,\u0026rdquo; he answered. \u0026ldquo;Johan De Wilde has just bought one of my paintings!\u0026rdquo;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Your paintings conjure up a pictorial space by means of fields of colour, stripes and messy brushstrokes, sometimes by means of a figurative element. Some of your strokes remind me of the highlights Joris Ghekiere applies with a brush attached to a drill.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, I know those highlights. They\u0026rsquo;re amazing.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here, where you would normally expect a highlight, you\u0026rsquo;ve painted a beige spot. The background is fluorescent vermillion. That\u0026rsquo;s a nice touch. The highlight is darker than the background: a sort of negative highlight.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The advantage of fluorescent colours is that the onlooker understands that the painting is not trying to be realistic. I also like to make fluorescent colours vibrate with non-fluorescent colours, so that they change character. Here the result is a sort of Rothko on acid\u0026hellip; The work of the painter Pierre Soulages, where light and dark carry equal weight, helped me make and assess the almost white highlight in that fluorescent area, which nevertheless suddenly turns out to be darker than the fluorescent area. Black dominates in Soulages\u0026rsquo; work, but the white of the ground is just as important and occasionally even essential. A traditional or academic painter adds the highlights at the end. They are not vestiges of an earlier layer breaking through here and there, but strokes placed so as to illuminate certain areas. I enjoy reversing these things. The idea of \u0026lsquo;negative highlights\u0026rsquo;, as you call them, amuses and inspires me.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You make comical stains.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Sometimes I spend ten minutes working on a small stain. I keep on rubbing, trying to work it into the canvas so that the edges lose their definition and stand out.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you conjure up the image of a field of reeds by means of a whole host of choppy strokes in three different colours. \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I wanted to paint a stretch of grass, but it didn\u0026rsquo;t work. I ended up with a field of reeds.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- A virtuoso, illusionistic effect reminiscent of the Impressionists or of Van Gogh. At the same time the brushstrokes are so far apart that from close to they seem to float in a void. It looks as if you put them there to conjure up a dark void. The addition of the white touches shimmering against the brown background evidently gives your canvas depth.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Those touches also serve as a contrast to the almost mechanical, overworked areas which in the top half of the painting create the image of a building. It\u0026rsquo;s a good example of a contrast you can\u0026rsquo;t think up in advance. If I try to plan something, the painting goes wrong. I don\u0026#39;t plan. I look at the result of a gesture and then I try to counter it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The result is often a hollow piling up of minimal gestures, like a stripe created as a crevice between two added layers, which might suggest an architectural element like the corner of a building.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I love color field painting, but that\u0026rsquo;s not what I\u0026rsquo;m aiming at. I try to evoke a space which I paint very flat, allowing the spectator to approach it from different standpoints.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How do you begin a painting? Do you use gesso?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I like to apply a first element as something to react to. Sometimes I use acrylics mixed with ink and sometimes coloured gesso, which usually produces a sort of pastel colour. The more dissimilar the ground in terms of colour and texture, the better. Different formats and stretchers of various thicknesses can also help get me started. Acrylics mixed with Indian ink or airbrush ink produce very runny, but highly pigmented paint which I really like working with. The pigment in that ink dissolves much more finely than you could possibly grind or mix it yourself. Unfortunately I can only get small bottles from my supplier now. I sometimes mix those inks with acrylics to give them density. That way I can also apply different strokes and I can work wet in wet.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you did use a white ground.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Yes, but it took me months. The white gives it a sort of freshness.\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How did you make this smudge?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: To make a smudge like that, I go backwards and forwards 500 times with a fairly hard, hog\u0026rsquo;s bristle brush. There\u0026rsquo;s often a gradation in it, which I paint with a softer, synthetic brush. These are attempts to paint like someone who can\u0026rsquo;t paint.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I have the impression you sometimes lay your paintings down flat to paint them, otherwise there would be many more drips (because you work with very liquid paint).\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: You\u0026rsquo;re right. I often paint on flat canvases. Flat canvases provide a different perspective; you relate differently to the painting. Sometimes you are in for a surprise when you hang the canvas up, but that tension is all part of the process.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use a flesh colour for an abstract section.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t think I would use flesh colour to paint people, but it works for a background.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Why do you so often go for indefinable colours, colours that don\u0026rsquo;t trigger associations?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I don\u0026rsquo;t want to make pure work. I don\u0026rsquo;t like pure ideas and pure execution. My work sets out to comment on the work itself. So it may come across as too double or too full, but to me that ambiguity is necessary. That\u0026rsquo;s the way the world appears to me and that\u0026rsquo;s how I look at the world. The \u0026lsquo;over-fullness\u0026rsquo; is intentional.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- How would you describe this colour?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: It\u0026rsquo;s ochre with a dash of blue ink mixed in so that the ochre turns greenish, bluish. But actually it\u0026rsquo;s very difficult to define a colour. This area, for example, is painted very opaquely; it is more thickly covered than the other areas. It makes the colour look different. The other thing is that a colour is always influenced by the colours around it and by the way they are applied.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- The edges of your paintings often contain little accents or even essentials.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Do you go right to the edge, do you stop just before or do you go over it? I want to make these options tangible, not for compositional reasons but to reveal the thinking behind and about a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- I like the obvious vestiges of a bottom layer on the edges of your paintings. At first glance they suggest sloppiness, but then you see that they were applied afterwards, in a rough and humorous sort of way.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003eCeulemans: \u003c/em\u003ePeople look first at silhouettes and contours and then at what\u0026rsquo;s inside a form. They enter the painting from the edge. That\u0026rsquo;s why it\u0026rsquo;s nice to have something tremble, explode or burst on the edge.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- They are elements which seem to serve as a sort of bogus starting point for a first, superficial reading of the painting.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The genesis of a painting is part of its total makeup. It\u0026rsquo;s a feature like colour or form. That\u0026rsquo;s how I came up with the idea of influencing the overall shape of a painting by giving it a bogus history. I might do this by applying a thick layer of paint to the side of a painting to give the impression of numerous preparatory layers under the surface.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In this painting you painted over a pink section with a different pink.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: The painting was finished and then the cat walked over it! It was covered in paw marks. She didn\u0026rsquo;t walk over it in a felicitous way and so suddenly the painting was dead. After a while I decided to overcome that setback and I corrected the pink part but in such as way that you could see what I had done. The cover-up was executed in a deliberately rough-and-ready way.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eThe most important question I ask myself is: what is the most unlikely thing I can do on this canvas without resorting to gimmicks? Because I could of course cut the canvas up, but that doesn\u0026rsquo;t interest me. How can you make a painting a meta-painting? That\u0026rsquo;s what it\u0026rsquo;s all about. In a purely figurative painting nothing is left to the spectator\u0026rsquo;s imagination. But what would be sufficient motivation to create an abstract painting? You can see that it still needs something, but what? Sometimes you are overcome by despair because you can\u0026rsquo;t see any solution. I completed the painting you see here with a calligraphic element. That sort of thing doesn\u0026rsquo;t usually work, because the painting starts to revolve around the last gesture. But here it\u0026rsquo;s in proportion. It\u0026rsquo;s often a question of striking a balance: how can I put a line very clearly on the canvas and yet still have it suggest something?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- By making the line sharp on one side and leaving the other side hazy.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: For example.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Here you use the outline of a car as a figurative starting point.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I studied product development for a year. It\u0026rsquo;s a product drawing. The prototype as abstract matter. Here the abstraction is created by the juxtaposition of lines. The lines suggest an unrealistic space. This first dawned on me in 2008.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- You have a tendency to exploit the adventure of each painting to the full.\u0026nbsp; \u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: How complete do you want to be in a single painting? That\u0026rsquo;s a really important question. Only since February of this year have I understood how this can work. I now understand that I don\u0026rsquo;t have to pack everything into each work, that collectively my paintings tell a story.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Would you name a painter whose work you like?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: As it happens, you have already mentioned his name. I love Joris Ghekiere\u0026rsquo;s work if there are no frontal figures in it. Abstraction and figuration are given equal weight in his work, and I can identify with that. His quest for strange painterly solutions is inspirational. Sometimes that sort of quest is endearing, but it is also necessary\u0026hellip; A painter who has been important to me is Philip Guston. He started off as a cartoonist. He then went on to make abstract paintings and after that figurative elements began to appear in his work. Gradually lines crept in and the forms became harder and harder\u0026hellip; I can never really admire painters who spend the whole of their life doing the same thing\u0026hellip;\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nI trained as an illustrator and as such worked for two well-known weeklies. But I stopped\u0026hellip; I spent most of the next few years reading: Nietzsche, Montaigne, Bataille, Derrida, Deleuze, Heidegger, Adorno, Horkheimer, Peter Sloterdijk and Guy Debord, who offered an attitude to life rather than a philosophy. I was living near the library in Ghent. I\u0026rsquo;m really glad I read so much then, because now I just can\u0026rsquo;t do it. I can\u0026rsquo;t read and paint at the same time.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Have you also read novels?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: I found Christian Dotremont\u0026rsquo;s only novel La pierre et l\u0026rsquo;oreiller, really beautiful\u0026hellip; Cesare Pavese\u0026rsquo;s The Burning Brand, Mishima\u003cem\u003e\u0026rsquo;s Confessions of a Mask\u003c/em\u003e, Thomas Bernhard\u0026hellip; And \u003cem\u003eThe Thirtieth Year \u003c/em\u003eby Ingeborg Bachmann, with whom Paul Celan had an affair, has always stayed with me. I also thought the Japanese book \u003cem\u003eThe Woman in the Dunes\u003c/em\u003e was marvellous: a couple of characters and otherwise just the ever-shifting sand. In that novel the desert sand is much more than a setting, it almost becomes a character in its own right. Brilliant\u0026hellip; \u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Like a flesh-coloured background in one of your paintings?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: sans-serif,Arial,Verdana,\u0026amp;quot;trebuchet ms\u0026amp;quot;; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003eCeulemans: Indeed. A reversal that is unexpected but leaves a lasting impression. An ambiguous world to walk through.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, December 31st 2009\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nTranslated by Alison Mouthaan-Gwillim\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"es","short_description":"","description":""},{"locale":"el","short_description":"","description":""}],"actors":[]}